Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Changeling the Lost Specific Questions

Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby The Doctor » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Ironic...or unfortunate?
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Capt. Hobbes » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:56 pm

I'd say that this is indeed a rules issue; if the involved parties are satisfied with the way the scene is progressing that is of course fine, but for the sake of the future wherein there might be more of a problem it would be good to establish an understanding of what the contract entails, and what an appropriate reaction thereto would be.
With a heave-hi, lurkin' off the shore!
As wily as a devil with a couple vices more!
And with a ho-hi, from the pilots to the swabs
He's the finest of the pirates and they call him Captain Hobbes!


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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Fier » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:12 pm

Hmm...I suppose. I just thought it was more of a personal "does this make sense for my character to think this way" rather than an actual "is this how the contract works" question. I can see what you mean though. Carry on then..
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Capt. Hobbes » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:38 pm

I think an important point to consider is whether the contract loses teeth, or indeed if kenning loses teeth, if it's this easy to know it when you feel it. It might not be too big of a deal for this particular contract, though it's worth considering that there are other socially-based contracts that would suffer from a like treatment.
With a heave-hi, lurkin' off the shore!
As wily as a devil with a couple vices more!
And with a ho-hi, from the pilots to the swabs
He's the finest of the pirates and they call him Captain Hobbes!


~From the Ballad of Captain Hobbes
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Fetch » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:18 pm

In general I assume unless a power states otherwise that there are signs of it's use. A fireball this is fairly obvious. Fwoosh! Flame!
For scrying the user probably just gets a faraway look. Are they using some power or are they stoned? Kenning!
Social Contracts obviously have perceivable effects on the target but how noticeable is this? It's hard to say.

I feel the important thing to keep in mind is that the signs of the subtler powers (changed emotions, dreamy looks, bad luck) are things that can happen entirely naturally. It's not unreasonable for a changeling to wonder if they really do love him/her or if some spring courtier is just playing tricks on them. Without Kenning you can't know for sure. You can guess, you can even run off and accuse people, but you can't know.

Like I said up-thread one thing I'd love to see now and again is false positive on IDing power use in this way. The problem of course is that the only time you as a player are likely to think of it is when someone has just done a draw against you for some Contract. Even if people work thru Staff the vary fact that I'm telling you "your character feels x" says something is up.

On the productive side of things, how could we get around this? Maybe if people were cool with it Staff could randomly jump in with "your character feels x" for the natural shifts in mood over time. That way power use would blend in more. The problem is that it would take away some small portion of the characters autonomy which is often viewed as a big no-no.
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Capt. Hobbes » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:19 pm

I could see there being some degree to which staff could feed characters emotions, strictly as an atmospheric bit of narration. You wouldn't be coming out and saying "You're scared", of course, but you could say "(Subject) is frightening/forboding/disquieting"/ "There's something unsettling about (subject)." It probably wouldn't even be unreasonable to call for the odd composure check. There wouldn't even need to be anything mechanical about this to enforce it; just like how you can say "Don't think about elephants" to make everyone think about elephants, try bringing people into a setting by saying "Nobody needs to be afraid about, say, the creepy doll in the corner" and seeing what everybody's suddenly treating like a bomb. It works to your advantage that a lot of appropriate powers simply subtract a target's defense from the check instead of actually calling for a contest; suddenly a canny player has reason to wonder whether something is just mundanely eye-catching or the focus of some diabolical hocus-pocus.
With a heave-hi, lurkin' off the shore!
As wily as a devil with a couple vices more!
And with a ho-hi, from the pilots to the swabs
He's the finest of the pirates and they call him Captain Hobbes!


~From the Ballad of Captain Hobbes
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Renee » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:16 pm

It's a difficult issue. A lot of more social or emotional contracts allow for characters to react how they see fit, which I understand because only you really know the machinations of your character. The frustrating thing as someone who's potentially "hexing" the individual is that a lot of times the "hexee" decides that they are above the powers of the contract/ emotion/ whatever. I wonder sometimes if this has more to do with a lack of looking into the entire nature of the character (emotions, reactions, preferences, tastes) or just player heroics; however, if you are successful with a contract or whatever it is extremely annoying when other players don't deem it necessary to react as implied for their character.

I know I have a certain bias playing the Autumn Queen, but Flipper isn't very scary (most of the time >.>) and the main way that I can play my character as she should be played is that the other players give me the benefit of the doubt so to speak. And while I don't like to dictate either, Autumn courtiers are supposed to be creepy, scary, disturbing, unnerving and alarming.
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Capt. Hobbes » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:44 pm

Indeed, that's getting back into the issues of social contests vs. free will. I remember I once had a discussion with someone who seemed to think it was absolutely criminal when a game master told him, as the result of some failed test, that his character was afraid. To this I responded "When was the last time you, personally, ever decided to be afraid?" I think some people lose sight of the fact that forces like fear are very much a stumbling block to free will, in real life as much as in a game.

It's obviously hard to quantify the effects of fear in game, but my own personal policy is that when I lose a socially-based challenge I take a moment to assess how I would have acted normally and come up with some alternative that is benifical towards the aggressing party or, failing that, at least detrimental to my own character. Further, Lucas mentioned a while back the concept of working out the consequences of social rolls between players prior to making them, which really strikes me as a good way to go.
With a heave-hi, lurkin' off the shore!
As wily as a devil with a couple vices more!
And with a ho-hi, from the pilots to the swabs
He's the finest of the pirates and they call him Captain Hobbes!


~From the Ballad of Captain Hobbes
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Re: Seeking an Audience with the Queen

Postby Delphinan » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:10 am

Side note germane to the topic: Kudos again to Breck for taking so well not only my cruel mental trick with the Deck of Many Things (making him forget the bad effects existed) but also the time made him sing his feelings.
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