Arcadian Metabolism.

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Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Lucky Luke » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:31 am

Lucas told me to make a thread about this when he told me it doesn't work like in it says in the book. (first time I've even heard of this)
“Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It’s a shark riding on an elephant’s back, just trampling and eating everything they see.”
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Darrell » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:52 pm

Wait, what? This is the first I've heard about it, too.

For those not familiar with the merit, it is a three dot merit on page 87 in Rites of Spring, and anyone who has it, according to the book, gains additional healing from healing goblin fruit. Instead of the norm, which I believe is one lethal, they can heal one aggravated, two lethal, or four bashing with a single healing fruit. However, they can only heal one aggravated damage a day in this fashion, and they become somewhat cripplingly addicted to goblin fruit, and medicine rolls to help him receive a -1 penalty. The addiction is as follows: If the character does not eat one goblin fruit per week, he takes a bashing which cannot be healed except by healing goblin fruit, plus another such bashing for every three days thereafter spent without eating a goblin fruit. Eating a single goblin fruit cures this condition and has it's normal effects. If the character is without goblin fruit for too long he will sicken and die.

So, that's how it is in the book. There is nothing in the wiki's section on Changeling rules changes, or in the Rules Announcements sub-forum, or in this Changeling Rules Questions sub-forum. I guess we now wait for Lucas to educate us on how the merit is suddenly not working the way it does in the book.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Fetch » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:23 pm

More specifically the issue is this. In the past (before I was HST) the question of how this merit worked was raised and I believe what was decided was that it increases the normal benefits of healing fruits to two Lethal or one Agg, or four points of Bashing damage instead of the normal one Lethal or one Bashing. However rulings from that time did not always make it into writing. Hence I am open to new discussion on the topic.

For the merit the issue is part play balance and part common sense.

Common Sense
Eating Strangleweed, poisonous Jennyapples, to say nothing of general thorns and leaves of the hedge in general, really shouldn't be beneficial any more than chewing on a pine-cone or deadly night shade is beneficial to an experienced and skilled (mortal) outdoorsman.

Balance Issue
For 20 or 24 exp + pre-requirements(24 or 32) one can get Gluttonous Feast of Health (Stone 4). With the best pool currently in game, 8(Stamina 5 + Wyrd 3), one can with an hour, allot of food, and three glamour heal an average of two Agg or four Lethal.

For 12 exp you can heal one Agg, two Lethal, or four Bashing by popping any old thing from the hedge that the ST allows to be called "goblin fruit" into their mouth and chewing. No hour, no glamour cost. And on top of that if you have any good goblin fruit on you might get those benefits on top of the healing.

That's allot of benefits(32 or 44 exp, an hour of time, 3 glamour) for the very minor drawback of needing something, anything, from the hedge that you physically can eat.


The added wrinkle is that given the general quality of editing and communication in White Wolf works I'd be willing to bet that the author that wrote up Arcadian Metabolism simple didn't realize that goblin fruits did anything other than heal you.



Oh, and the other matter for debate is whether "...your character gains additional benefit from eating goblin fruit. He regains one point of aggravated damage, two points of lethal damage or four points of bashing damage for every goblin fruit he consumes." means that the character recoveries a flat 1A, 2L, or 4B or if they also get the normal benefits of the fruit as well. My reading is in place of but it is somewhat ambiguous.


edit: Also, long standing suggestion of Staff has been that you should ask us if you see something that seems way too good. Better to find out we're stomping it before you build your character around it.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Fetch » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:26 pm

Darrell wrote:Instead of the norm, which I believe is one lethal...

This is exactly what I'm talking about on the author. I suspect that whoever wrote this merit was also under the impression that practically all goblin fruit healed lethal.

The two most common effects of beneficial goblin fruit(ie the kind you actually go out of your way to gather)* is either healing one Lethal or Bashing damage or else restoring one Glamour.


* If you want to debate just what is a goblin fruit and what isn't please start a new thread for that topic.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Lucky Luke » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:52 pm

I personally think it should give you an increased affect from any goblin fruit, not just healing, and not just from the good ones.
“Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It’s a shark riding on an elephant’s back, just trampling and eating everything they see.”
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Matthew » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:25 pm

Fetch wrote:Eating Strangleweed, poisonous Jennyapples, to say nothing of general thorns and leaves of the hedge in general, really shouldn't be beneficial any more than chewing on a pine-cone or deadly night shade is beneficial to an experienced and skilled (mortal) outdoorsman.


If you're a skilled outdoorsman, then you know that A: Pine nuts are tasty and nutritious and B: green pine needles are an important source of vitamin C, and make a passably tasty tea.

As for nightshade, digitalis is useful if you've got a heart patient (and a competent doctor).

But that's just me being pendantic.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby The Dragon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:37 pm

according to the book, gains additional healing from healing goblin fruit.


The question is more, can a person eat anything, any goblin fruit and heal? If what the book says, only healing gobling fruit then the answer should be no.

Though for the condition itself, eating any goblin fruit should be able to stop the condition from killing him. But will still suffer the penalties.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Fetch » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:49 pm

Matthew wrote:If you're a skilled outdoorsman, then you know that A: Pine nuts are tasty and nutritious and B: green pine needles are an important source of vitamin C, and make a passably tasty tea.


Sure and there are in game uses for the goblin fruits mentioned. Healing(or for that matter, eating) just isn't one of them.

Pine nuts are tasty and I had forgotten about them. My mental image was of someone picking them from the trees and just chowing down. Perhaps the sycamore seed ball would have been a better analogy.
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby Delphinan » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:48 pm

This probably goes back to an old question of goblin fruit; can one just reach a hand into the Hedge, grab some grass and gnaw on it for glamour without any dangerous treks, and really at will through any hedge gate. After all, it is organic and from the hedge, so doesn't it qualify was the question.

Obviously, it wasn't that easy. :)
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Re: Arcadian Metabolism.

Postby The Doctor » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:59 pm

This discussion is also ignoring the fact that the merit comes with a drawback, in that you need to keep eating goblin fruit in order to survive. Don't eat goblin fruit each week, take damage that can't be healed until you die. As a merit.

Is it powerful? Yes. It is easily also able to die from the merit? Yes. I think it tends to balance out pretty well.
Last edited by The Doctor on Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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