Page 1 of 2

Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:57 pm
by Fetch
In Rights of Spring mechanics were introduced for getting an overdose on emotional harvest of Glamour. These rules involve equating certain (high) amounts of Glamour to certain drugs, mechanically. Sorrow is like booze and desire is like weed man...
We've always run it with more than a little handwave for the sake of ease. Fear is fear, not a hit of amphetamines.

So, when Prometheus was ODing on Glamour last GoE I thought about how we might represent that, mechanically. Specifically I was thinking that for each point of Glamour one gets from a single test over their Composure they add one to the intensity of an appropriate Passion or generate a new Passion whole cloth as appropriate to the Glamour being harvested.

In Prometheus's case that would be something like excitement at the exhibitionist nature of the show. The first test would have made this a fleeing Intensity 1 Passion, the next two tests would have bumped it up by one each, and the last test would have added a final +2 to it's level for a total Passion rating of 5.

Mild overdoses would be no big deal. Passions of Intensity 1 or 2 wear off at the end of the scene or in a few days at the latest. Higher Intensity Passions would, at the end of the scene, settle in on the lowest Passion Slot of that Intensity, displacing existing long term Passions as needed.

It's "worse" than the current rules as one would face the possibility of having their characters feelings changed in the long term if they draw to many 10's but it seems like more fun to me and justifies the fluffs assertion that old stable changelings avoid emotion harvest because of the risk of overdose. It would also serve the rp as it hammers home the point that Glamour harvesting isn't just recourse acquisition but is a visceral absorption of the emotional energy given off by mortals. Arg draws to well and he's not just getting some Glamour and an overdose, he's overflowing with the heady voyeuristic lust for the fear of those who think the world a safe and simple place.

Thoughts?

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:34 pm
by Enkindel
It doesn't seem appropriate for the changes to passions to be permanent, even in extreme circumstances-- part of the point is to imitate the effects of drugs, and part of the horror of addiction is the crash. Its only after the effects ware off and your emotional state normalizes that you realize just how unlike yourself you are.

So the passions that get replaced should only last a scene, in my opinion.

Unless, of course, you decide to keep the changes for RP reasons. But that's something that's easy to do with the current rules anyway.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:38 pm
by Fetch
It depends on how you look at it. RAW doesn't (imo) imitate drugs because it's supposed to be physically similar but because the rush is similar and it saves word count to reuse the same rules. Now yes, it dose depend whether we want a short term "wow, I was fucked up last night" or a longer term "he used to be such a nice guy before he joined Autumn."

I like the later because it gives a definite way that over time the Glamour you harvest changes you. Take in too much fear and you ether run scared or love intimidating and creeping people out, depending which kind of Passions you take from the harvesting.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:51 pm
by Enkindel
Fetch wrote:It depends on how you look at it. RAW doesn't (imo) imitate drugs because it's supposed to be physically similar but because the rush is similar and it saves word count to reuse the same rules. Now yes, it dose depend whether we want a short term "wow, I was fucked up last night" or a longer term "he used to be such a nice guy before he joined Autumn."

I like the later because it gives a definite way that over time the Glamour you harvest changes you. Take in too much fear and you ether run scared or love intimidating and creeping people out, depending which kind of Passions you take from the harvesting.


I d'know, it seems like that would happen a lot if we force it to. I mean, as you just said, Prometheus just completely subverted one of his core, defining emotional connections with petty exhibitionism from fairly standard glamour harvesting. It seems like every character is going to become defined solely by the emotions they harvest from within two or three sessions with this system.

If we're going to force fundamental character alterations on people, it should be because someone made a choice, not because they got unlucky with a die roll.

Edit: I do like the idea of changing passions-- even permanent ones-- due to glamour overdose, just not permanently, to be clear.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:07 pm
by Fetch
Prometheus's was not a normal Glamour harvest at all. You need a distinctly new interaction to get a new test. Most of the time that ends up being a different emotion, make em sigh then make em cry. That would be two different Passions and not stack. Even if you do have something like a show with multiple acts of similar emotion but new approach (catwalk, talent show, ext) a Composure 1 character would need 5 glamour in one draw or up to 8 glamour in four draws to suffer anything they can't get rid of before next game. A level 3 Passion can be bumped down off the chart with the single bump provided by Composure 1. It's not going to happen often save in the case of social monsters and they bring it upon themselves.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:18 pm
by Fetch
Running with the same idea but turned towards short term consequences you'd probably want to build up the Passion at the same rate but then have them drop at one point per hour.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:20 pm
by Enkindel
Fetch wrote:Prometheus's was not a normal Glamour harvest at all. You need a distinctly new interaction to get a new test. Most of the time that ends up being a different emotion, make em sigh then make em cry. That would be two different Passions and not stack. Even if you do have something like a show with multiple acts of similar emotion but new approach (catwalk, talent show, ext) a Composure 1 character would need 5 glamour in one draw or up to 8 glamour in four draws to suffer anything they can't get rid of before next game. A level 3 Passion can be bumped down off the chart with the single bump provided by Composure 1. It's not going to happen often save in the case of social monsters and they bring it upon themselves.


Yeah, but you said similar overdoses stacked. 1+1+1= 3, which is permanent. And, in fact, claimed that Prometheus had picked up a rank 5 passion: "In Prometheus's case that would be something like excitement at the exhibitionist nature of the show. The first test would have made this a fleeing Intensity 1 Passion, the next two tests would have bumped it up by one each, and the last test would have added a final +2 to it's level for a total Passion rating of 5."

So Prometheus just lost a defining aspect of his character because he got reasonable draws three times. Unless I'm misreading that part.

Edit: Also, seems like any harvesting roll with a court emotion is almost always going to result in a permanent passion, since your successes are doubled. Unless you've got Composure in the four-five range, you're very likely to go over by at least three, if you're any good at harvesting that emotion at all. Which would encourage people to *never* harvest their court emotion, which is a rather undesirable consequence.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:22 pm
by Enkindel
Fetch wrote:Running with the same idea but turned towards short term consequences you'd probably want to build up the Passion at the same rate but then have them drop at one point per hour.


I like that idea better. It jives more with the "easy come easy go" nature of glamour-- harvesting it in large quantities should maybe inconvenient, but it shouldn't be character-threatening like you're suggesting.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:33 pm
by Fetch
Prometheus got 1 +1 +1 +2*, there were 4 acts including the strip tease. Also he didn't lose anything, just had whatever was on the bottom 5 slot bumped down a level (and the thing below bumped down and so on). Now yes, if I had all my Passion slots full that would mean getting the very bottom Passion getting bumped off but it's literally the least important long term Passion a character can have.
Without the extra act Prometheus could have just bumped down his new bottom 3 Passion down off the chart and bumped whatever he had there before back up with his Composure bumps per session.

Also I reiterate you won't usually find it easy to interact with the same emotion time and time again. I seduce him/her. I seduce them... with peanut butter? Much much easier to seduce them and then break their heart afterwords.

* Being an average Composure 2 this means he got a total of 13 Glamour or more than his entire pool between these 4 tests.

Re: Possible Glamour Overdose Rules

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:43 pm
by Enkindel
Fetch wrote:Prometheus got 1 +1 +1 +2*, there were 4 acts including the strip tease. Also he didn't lose anything, just had whatever was on the bottom 5 slot bumped down a level (and the thing below bumped down and so on). Now yes, if I had all my Passion slots full that would mean getting the very bottom Passion getting bumped off but it's literally the least important long term Passion a character can have.
Without the extra act Prometheus could have just bumped down his new bottom 3 Passion down off the chart and bumped whatever he had there before back up with his Composure bumps per session.

Also I reiterate you won't usually find it easy to interact with the same emotion time and time again. I seduce him/her. I seduce them... with peanut butter? Much much easier to seduce them and then break their heart afterwords.

* Being an average Composure 2 this means he got a total of 13 Glamour or more than his entire pool between these 4 tests.


Ahh, well that's not as bad I suppose, but still, I prefer the temporary version. Especially since court emotions are likely to always result in glamour overdoses with this system, which paradoxically encourages you not to harvest them.