A different combat idea

Any Rules questions you want to ask.

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Fetch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:31 am

Well that's the problem with oral tradition systems; no one knows how they work. In the old changeling larp book I think it was 3 steps + action so "3 steps or 2 steps + action" was either a different book or a house rule.

Foot chase and tracking both work out of combat time with one or more minuets per test.
User avatar
Fetch
Ring Member
 
Posts: 3922
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:01 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Milk Waffler » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:28 am

I favor the maximized lethality because really, do you, as a person, want to get into a fight? Do you want me to hit you with a picaxe handle? Most likely not unless you're crazy. Fighting in RPG's are par for the course, but they shouldn't be. It is a huge fucking deal. A gun should, most of the time if it's shot into someones head, kill them, and if not kill them, then hospitalize them for months. After all, guns are liable to KILL YOU, that's what they do.

Theres a saying about getting into knife figts. "You're in a knife fight, what did you do wrong? Get into a knife fight."

I'm kicking this idea out there: If combat is lethal enough, then people will avoid it (just like in real life). It's a nonexistant or last resort unless you're a psychopath, treat it as such guys. There are better ways to get things done than attempted murder.
“Most people don’t realize that large pieces of coral, which have been painted brown and attached to the skull by common wood screws, can make a child look like a deer.”
Milk Waffler
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:29 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Delphinan » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:37 am

Milk Waffler wrote:Theres a saying about getting into knife figts. "You're in a knife fight, what did you do wrong? Get into a knife fight."


Unfortunately for me, my experience has shown that starting a fight is not the fear most players have, it is being involuntarily dragged into one. Wanting to avoid damage is already something most players wish, so increasing the fatalities doesn't do anything but support those who note that if they can kill the enemy first, they won't take damage themselves. The mechanics encourage fast and deadly escalation. Then you get folks bringing knives to the brawl, and guns to a knife fight.

So, unfortunately, this thinking of using a fear of character death against violence just doesn't work. Perhaps it is the knowledge that we do play avatars, or just because it is a way to 'win', but this line of thinking has only encouraged the behavior of 'kill-it-before-it-kills-you'. It becomes an advantage in some minds to get in the first blow, and the escalation continues.
User avatar
Delphinan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:32 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Cassius Hugues » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:42 am

In theory I agree, but doubt that players will be the ones to head the movement. Now if the Staff started showing that and why non lethal options are preferable and then later up lethal weapon damage to say, 1 agg per success? with weapons giving low equipment bonuses, I could see the players changing their minds.
But as long as the antagonists use lethal weapons the players will also.
Give the cops some stun guns, tazers, truncheons, handcuffs, brawl, rubber bullets, ect... and see if the attitude changes.
you might also consider giving penalties to stay conscious every round after you are full of bashing.

And always make it exciting to escape confinement, if there is a faint hope of escaping jail then players will go to further extremes to avoid it.
User avatar
Cassius Hugues
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Cassius Hugues » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 am

Jeff is right, if the most efficient way to eliminate a threat in the game system is to bring the biggest gun then players will do that.
So to get them to stop using big guns you have to make it more efficient to use non lethal weapons to eliminate a threat.
Look at the stun gun in armory for a very good example, in two or three hits an average person can knockout another.
Make more weapons, merits, contracts, fighting styles that encourage non lethal combat and make it easier and quicker and players will naturally gravitate toward that.
User avatar
Cassius Hugues
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Fetch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:00 pm

Cassius Hugues wrote:But as long as the antagonists use lethal weapons the players will also.

I can't speak for other games but in CdP the most of the antagonists do generally avoid lethal weaponry.

Great example: Back when the Towers were gaining ground a group of PC's went out and messed with their turf, tagged their territory. A couple of towers showed up, one with a bat. The one with the bat stayed back while the others talked shit and, when the PC's refused to back down or explain themselves in terms the thugs understood, went in for a few punches to get these noobs to back off. The PC's pulled a knife. The Towers ran but not before one got stabbed down. The PC's then kidnapped this one after stabilizing him cuz hey, it's not like you need an ER after getting stabbed into unconsciousness.

Cops in my game do indeed announce themselves and go for an arrest as they should. Often this is responded to by the PC's with lethal attacks from claws, guns, and magic.

Now yes, the cops and other antagonists will often match the PC's in escalation but it's generally the PC's that push things first. There's only so many cops Mephisto can kill before they want him dead rather than in jail.
User avatar
Fetch
Ring Member
 
Posts: 3922
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:01 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Fetch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:06 pm

Oh and I would just like to mention that a pet peeve of mine in calling tasers "non-lethal" weapons. Their less lethal than a gun, more on par with a knife, and aren't generally considered non-lethal outside the US.
User avatar
Fetch
Ring Member
 
Posts: 3922
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:01 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Milk Waffler » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:19 pm

As Lucas has stated, it is often that PC's are the cause of most lethal interactions, probably because the system so heavily favors combat as a conflict resolution technique. CdP starts out with non-lethal antagonists, but are provoked by the combat centric PCs into the sort of game that no-one enjoys. It screws the game up for those non combat PC's by making an antagonist that knows it's going to have lethal force used on it, so it prepares for such force.


You aren't playing in the wild west, where human life was rather worthless, those times were bad.

On the flip side, if you shoot yourself an antagonist, they're probably going to die, not shoot back or escape and return with reinforcements.

WORLD OF DARKNESS IS ALL ABOUT MYSTEREYS, NOT ABOUT FIGHTING
“Most people don’t realize that large pieces of coral, which have been painted brown and attached to the skull by common wood screws, can make a child look like a deer.”
Milk Waffler
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:29 pm

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Skittles » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:41 pm

Hey now, the towers did pull a gun on Skittles, without provocation from her. They sword cuts both ways. I do think that damage is very unrealistic in this setting. In this game, you put a gun flush with someones head and pull the trigger and hit? They might still stand there and fight back. In the real world? There would be blood and brain and skull bits everywhere. I also feel like there should be some sort of mechanism for more insanity checks. Skittles found her brain and half eaten heart in the freezer and nothing really happened. Realistically that would mess with a person SO bad. Same with walking into a murder scene that you aren't expecting.
User avatar
Skittles
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:35 am

Re: A different combat idea

Postby Fetch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:02 pm

Well sure, the Towers core members were a little crazy after they started getting picked off by changelings. There's only so many motley mates who can get ganked before you wigg out and respond to all threats with extreme violence.

Or, if you're thinking of sometime after the founders got taken care of, then you were dealing with gang bangers who learned what a successful gang acts like by watching the Iron Ring curb stomp their founding members.
User avatar
Fetch
Ring Member
 
Posts: 3922
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Rules Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron