Creative mundane weapons?

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Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Palamedes » Mon May 20, 2013 9:36 am

Dagger or short sword a chain:
- Can you throw it at and enemy then pull the weapon back?
- What would be the appropriate roll for this?

Retractable grappling hook:
- If you had 2 of these attached to your character on a harness of sorts and had some sort of propelling mechanism, could you "lock on" to a wall edge or tree branch or something and launch yourself to it by retracting the grappling hook?
- Or swing on hedge trees like Spider-Man does with buildings?
- Mechanics?

Boomerangs and yo-yos:
- Used as weapons.
- They'd do bashing, no?

Proposal - "Gunblade":
- It would essentially be a sword with a gun mounted on it.
- The idea is that you could stab an enemy then shoot it at point blank range which should not miss due to the enemy having the blade embedded in flesh (probably not doing additional damage by mechanics).
- At mid range it would be used as a gun (at this point any rolls are counted as firearms and not weaponry).
- Ideally this means that to switch weapons, no significant action would be needed to do so as the weapon is a 2 in 1.

(I can provide more visual/specific explanations for these if necessary.)
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Delphinan » Mon May 20, 2013 10:20 am

Palamedes wrote: Dagger or short sword a chain:
- Can you throw it at and enemy then pull the weapon back?
- What would be the appropriate roll for this?


Only would pull out if the target actively resisted, else would drag the target (example, Mortal Kombat's Scorpion: "GET OVER HERE!")

Palamedes wrote:Retractable grappling hook:
- If you had 2 of these attached to your character on a harness of sorts and had some sort of propelling mechanism, could you "lock on" to a wall edge or tree branch or something and launch yourself to it by retracting the grappling hook?
- Or swing on hedge trees like Spider-Man does with buildings?
- Mechanics?

Most likely you would a) hit the ground as gravity factors into your trajectory, b) hit the target object much lower down unless the retracting mechanism has an acceleration faster than gravity....which would be humorous as the user fires across to a rooftop, jumps, falls, face plants on the target building's wall, and is slowly dragged up the wall by the grapple leaving a long blood smear. :twisted:

Palamedes wrote:Boomerangs and yo-yos:
- Used as weapons.
- They'd do bashing, no?

Both are indeed weapons, needing skill to handle. Bashing is appropriate, but the 'auto-retrieval' mechanic would likely be disrupted by hitting the target, which costs the weapon the momentum usually used to return either by flight path or continue spinning.

Palamedes wrote:Proposal - "Gunblade":
- It would essentially be a sword with a gun mounted on it.
- The idea is that you could stab an enemy then shoot it at point blank range which should not miss due to the enemy having the blade embedded in flesh (probably not doing additional damage by mechanics).
- At mid range it would be used as a gun (at this point any rolls are counted as firearms and not weaponry).
- Ideally this means that to switch weapons, no significant action would be needed to do so as the weapon is a 2 in 1.

This is a bayonet, mechanically yes?

The Gunblade was used in Final Fantasy 8, and a number of examples exist of replicas that can be used for reference.
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My concern would be that any damage to the sword would make firing the thing very dangerous as the bullet might no longer have a straight clear path along the blade edge.
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Palamedes » Mon May 20, 2013 12:29 pm

Yes, technically a bayonet but with the sword being the main component rather an add on to the gun.

No, not quite like FFVIII since those used bullet vibrations and actually didn't shoot anything.

Like real life pistol swords. I think that'd be an appropriate reference.



And for the grappling hooks, would having 2 of them like I mentioned make a difference? Ideally, you'd alternate then and detach each while launching the other to control the path of "flight".
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Delphinan » Mon May 20, 2013 1:59 pm

Palamedes wrote:And for the grappling hooks, would having 2 of them like I mentioned make a difference? Ideally, you'd alternate then and detach each while launching the other to control the path of "flight".


I would think several physics would still get in the way. Yes, you could likely do a swinging vine trick up to the point you run out of detachable grapples, not sure how well controlled your flight would be as you are stuck with whatever you hit (if anything...likely no time for a second shot). You would also need to be careful of length of rope as you would be depending on centrifugal force to throw you around further than you can jump when swinging. Unfortunately, the longer the rope, the more torque would be applied to the fixed point, which may tear loose mid-swing.

Devil's in the details. :D

Hmmm, one thought experiment: picture yourself on a bridge with bungee grapples as you describe. Jump off...picture what it takes to keep going just up and down without going splat on either the bridge or the ground in terms of timing, accuracy, stamina, and grapple supplies. :shock:
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Delphinan » Mon May 20, 2013 2:13 pm

Of course,this just applies to mundane equipment. Getting the equipment to actively support your goal, as with magiks, opens up a range of options that would appear impossible to the muggle trying to duplicate it.

Muggle wrote:"Grapples can't unhook themselves when they want to! Must be some sort of computer in them, and clamps! And...and...and rockets, because that grapple twisted in midair to nail that tree branch!"
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Enigmia » Mon May 20, 2013 2:36 pm

Another point is that, depending on what exactly you're doing with these hooks, you stand a good chance of tearing your arm out of it's socket when the full weight of your body comes down on that shoulder which isn't designed to handle it.

On the note of needing detachable hooks to keep going,you could use three armed clamps with a signal wire woven into the cable, then push a button on the handle at the point you wanted the clamp to let go of whatever it was holding, assuming you could make the massive check to catch the far away branch-or-otherwise while moving.

Basically, go watch the Mythbusters episode on it, they find most of the problems within the first half hour.
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Palamedes » Mon May 20, 2013 4:54 pm

Enigmia wrote:Another point is that, depending on what exactly you're doing with these hooks, you stand a good chance of tearing your arm out of it's socket when the full weight of your body comes down on that shoulder which isn't designed to handle it.

On the note of needing detachable hooks to keep going,you could use three armed clamps with a signal wire woven into the cable, then push a button on the handle at the point you wanted the clamp to let go of whatever it was holding, assuming you could make the massive check to catch the far away branch-or-otherwise while moving.

Basically, go watch the Mythbusters episode on it, they find most of the problems within the first half hour.


They'd be attached to a harness.
I actually got the idea from Attack on Titan lol.
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Gravedigger » Wed May 29, 2013 6:14 pm

Ahem-

Traditional boomerangs, the ones designed to hunt kangaroo, do NOT return when thrown. They do fly pretty far due to design, though.

Heavy yo-yos have the same issue.

Adding a retreival mechanism to a thrown weapon makes it so the thrown weapon.. flies like crap. Even a tiny thin line is going to produce enough drag that performance will be laughable.

Your best bet is a length of light chain, with a weight on one or both ends. The Japanese have a few of these. Manrikigusari (weighted chain), Rope Dart (weighted spike on a rope, is slung rather than thrown), Meteor Hammer (heavy iron spheres on rope or chain), and Chain Whip (chain with weighted, pointy end). There is also the Kasurigama, which is a sickle with a weighted rope attached, used to entangle and distract long enoguh for the bladed strike.

There exist swords with pistols built in, usually flintlocks. Performance is mediocre. The stab-then-shoot thing is going to be tricky, as honestly, if you have someone at point-tip, you're already stabbing them pretty effectively, and a bullet won't be any more appreciable, with a lot of complexity of both action and design. There do exist some VERY nasty knives that are designed to inject compressed nitrogen into a stab wound. Designed for killing sharks. Illegal. as. fuck.

The grappling hook thing: There's a reason nobody has made this IRL. Brachiation is tricky. Leave it to the gibbons. Even just as a way to haul yourself up, making motors and such things that are reliable AND lightweight? Not easy, cheap, or practical. Also, grappling hooks are notoriously tricky to use. You need multiple throws to get them to 'set' properly, and even then, they might have caught on something that will break under your weight. Might I point you to Boon of the Scuttling Spider?
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Palamedes » Wed May 29, 2013 10:09 pm

Gravedigger wrote:Ahem-

Traditional boomerangs, the ones designed to hunt kangaroo, do NOT return when thrown. They do fly pretty far due to design, though.

Heavy yo-yos have the same issue.

Adding a retreival mechanism to a thrown weapon makes it so the thrown weapon.. flies like crap. Even a tiny thin line is going to produce enough drag that performance will be laughable.

Your best bet is a length of light chain, with a weight on one or both ends. The Japanese have a few of these. Manrikigusari (weighted chain), Rope Dart (weighted spike on a rope, is slung rather than thrown), Meteor Hammer (heavy iron spheres on rope or chain), and Chain Whip (chain with weighted, pointy end). There is also the Kasurigama, which is a sickle with a weighted rope attached, used to entangle and distract long enoguh for the bladed strike.

There exist swords with pistols built in, usually flintlocks. Performance is mediocre. The stab-then-shoot thing is going to be tricky, as honestly, if you have someone at point-tip, you're already stabbing them pretty effectively, and a bullet won't be any more appreciable, with a lot of complexity of both action and design. There do exist some VERY nasty knives that are designed to inject compressed nitrogen into a stab wound. Designed for killing sharks. Illegal. as. fuck.

The grappling hook thing: There's a reason nobody has made this IRL. Brachiation is tricky. Leave it to the gibbons. Even just as a way to haul yourself up, making motors and such things that are reliable AND lightweight? Not easy, cheap, or practical. Also, grappling hooks are notoriously tricky to use. You need multiple throws to get them to 'set' properly, and even then, they might have caught on something that will break under your weight. Might I point you to Boon of the Scuttling Spider?


Oh, yeah, I knew about those, I wasn't considering using them, but rather just have the mechanics in mind for future reference.

Yeah, the dagger with the chain thing is already gong to be used by me now, as it could be useful in retrieving or pulling back a thrown weapon.

B-b-but, there's no kill like overkill, y'know! (As for legal things that would create nasty wounds, there's swords that have 2 blades mounted parallel. Or just rub salt on your weapon, for pain. Or rub dirt on it, so the wound gets infected.)

lol, I figured the hook was impractical, but it sure does look cool!
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Re: Creative mundane weapons?

Postby Gravedigger » Thu May 30, 2013 1:56 am

The parallel blades thing also doesn't 'do more'. In fact, it does less, since your striking force is now spread over a wider area, and you have the additional weight of two blades that you have to swing around. While this means more mass at impact, this also means more mass you have to accellerate. If you're looking at wholly mundane weapons, you're gonna have to deal with wholly mundane physics, sadly.

Now, Hedgespun items, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Feel free to have whatever you feel like. Just bear in mind, it's constrained by the actual stats of the weapon - you don't get more benefit from the way it is shaped unless you've paid for it, as it were. If it's melee, three Lethal, difficult to conceal, and gains benefit from a Weaponry specialization in Swords, then that's what it is. You can still have it be made out of water, with fish swimming in it, but mechanically, it's the same as a bog-standard broadsword. Game balance.

Additionally, there's no reason that while in Arcadia, your character was granted skill with some weaponry or device that would seem absurd by mundane standards. Yes, your character is a trained assassin, capable of killing an entire room full of people armed only with a toaster and a rolled-up copy of National Geographic. They might get a lot better benefit if that training had been in sharp, pointy things, but there you have it.

I will note with some sorrow that the Old World of Darkness setting for Changeling you could very easily have utterly bizarre and 'rule of cool' weapons. Still constrained by the basic stats for the item, but chimerical items were often absolutely fantastical in nature. I had a Nocker with a gun that fired fish bones as hypervelocity flechettes...

My advice is that if you want to have a unique weapon that is mundane, you should look at existing/historical weapons. If you want a unique weapon that's NOT mundane, then take a look at existing/historical weapons, then add your own flair as a Hedgespun weapon. I will note that weapons made out of exotic materials are fairly common for Hedgespun items, as Iron does not take well to enchantments. A sword made out of feathers, for example...
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