PKs

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PKs

Postby Dream » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:47 am

Er, figured I'd post here in case my question/answers got too long instead of the wiki.

(in response to the PK rules that just got listed on the wiki)

1) So if X tries to kill Y, but other people are around, is X allowed to knock any of the other PCs to bleeding to death (assuming they can only cause lethal, not bashing) due to a) they got 'in the way' consistently (say for instance someone trying to kill Sankhya and Uriel keeps jumping in front of her or keeps blocking the way, it seems weird for the PC to not be allowed to attack him) or b) X failed/succeeded in the kill attempt and is trying to get away but is being stopped by other PCs from escaping. (It seems wholly unrealistic for them not to be allowed to defend themselves?), etc?

2) So...if X tries to kill Y, and X succeeds or fails but then runs away from the other PCs for the remainder of the game, basically other people would need to make PK apps for them to be able to retaliate next game?

I'm sure this can all be better phrased, but, meh.
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Re: PKs

Postby Jared Thaler » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:26 pm

the following is my opinions, not staff decrees, that said, unless staff comes to consensus otherwise, this is how I will run it.

1.) Yes, You are allowed to inflict lethal damage on other PC's in defense of yourself. This is, broadly speaking, always true. The PK rules are with regards to intentionally trying to remove the other character from play. It is preferable that you inflict bashing, and in most cases you will be able to do so. (obviously, things like Armor of elements fury may make this less practical. In which case, you should probably do everything you can *not* to kill people.)

Now that said, we would like people to show some restraint: That is to say, if you have hit another PC several times, and they are barely limping after you, (-2 wound penalties) you probably shouldn't smack into them with your full 15 dice pool lethal attack. It is totally legal to "pull your punch" and use only part of your test pool (though you have to declare you are doing this *before* you draw.)

This also means that if you are chasing another PC, and you are down to one health box, and there is no one around to administer first aid, *BREAK OFF CHASING THEM.* If I feel you are trying to hide behind "well I know you aren't allowed to kill me, and right now 2 bashing will put me over into bleeding to death, and there is no one here to save me, so you can't attack me but I can still attack you" then I will simply rule that your character died of their own stupidity and stubbornness. Likewise, if you physically throw yourself on someone with Armor of Elements Fury, the *no PK without App* rule will not save you. Hopefully, their character's conscience and love of your character will, but the rules will not force them to drop their armor to save their life.

PC's should always honor other PC's surrenders (at least to the extent of ceasing to inflict lethal on a character that has surrendered.)

PC's should not try to force other PC's to break the no PK rule by refusing to surrender.

2.) For the rest of the game, the rest of the PC's can "in the heat of the moment" kill the character. Subsequently, they should either a.) try to capture the character and bring them before the relevant authority for justice, b.) inform the relevant authority and let them deal with it, c.) submit an app explaining why your character has legitimate reason to feel that the proper authority can't possibly deal with this, and killing the guy is the only option, or d.) some combination of the above (this may, optionally involve beating crap out of the character before turning them over.)

Note that blatant attempts to abuse this system (apping for a PK, and then waiting for 11:00 PM so that other people don't have time to hunt you down, PKing and then going home for the evening) will result in staff being cranky and doing things like extending the retaliation period.

Rule 0, is, as in all cases, in effect. (rule 0, Staff is not bound by any rule that would require them to act like idiots.)
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Re: PKs

Postby KrisT » Tue May 26, 2009 9:49 am

As a reminder, love, the rules we've always played on are that if a PVP-kill occurs without a PK app, the scene is effectively frozen for two weeks while staff discusses whether the person was just "unconscious on the verge of death" or a legitimate kill. As such, the PK-& app process would be completed subsequent to the kill, with retaliatory open season taking place the game following, and the burden would be on the killer to convince us it was appropriate.
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Re: PKs

Postby Hope » Tue May 26, 2009 10:33 am

Jared Thaler wrote:2.) For the rest of the game, the rest of the PC's can "in the heat of the moment" kill the character. Subsequently, they should either a.) try to capture the character and bring them before the relevant authority for justice, b.) inform the relevant authority and let them deal with it, c.) submit an app explaining why your character has legitimate reason to feel that the proper authority can't possibly deal with this, and killing the guy is the only option, or d.) some combination of the above (this may, optionally involve beating crap out of the character before turning them over.)


Perhaps a bit off topic as I have no desire to kill any PCs, but we don't currently have any relevant authorities in the changeling game. (A complete contrast to mage's stable government.) Hopefully this will resolve itself in the next few sessions, but in the mean time it seems like most of those options would be difficult for PCs to carry out.
I felt sad because I realized that once people are broken in certain ways they can't ever be fixed [...] you see the people in your life break one by one. You wonder when your turn is going to be, or if it's already happened. - Douglas Couplan
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Re: PKs

Postby B.L. » Tue May 26, 2009 10:36 am

Cops and local courts can be found, to some degree privateers and fae are relevant authorities as well.
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Re: PKs

Postby Jared Thaler » Tue May 26, 2009 2:26 pm

Cops, Courts, Pledges, and other local supernatural authorities are all around. Of the assorted groups, at the current moment, almost every one has a freehold within the metropolitan area they are in. (Hobsgood has the market bailiffs if you need them :twisted: But I suggest you find other options.)
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Re: PKs

Postby Fetch » Tue May 26, 2009 9:04 pm

Jared Thaler wrote:...But I suggest you find other options.)


I don't :twisted:
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